Albatross Alpine number 2003 restoration

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Tatra Man
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Tatra Man »

Many thanks for the advice and the link to the photos. Somehow I had come across them before but it's good to have them linked here and a replica trailer is possibly on the cards. I wonder if the four-seat Alpine trailer is longer.

I understand what you say about welding and shrinkage - been there myself - but my friend is a professional with decades of TIG experience so I'll listen to his advice (which may well also be to rivet it).

I disagree about the engine cover and the header tank.

A stainless rudder may be non-original but then so is anything other than a mild steel exhaust. :hilarious:

Thanks for the info. on the seats which confirms what I've heard. Has anyone any photos or info. on the colour options?

Yes, those steering wheels are rather large!

I know about filler for aluminium but let's hope it won't need much more than acid etch primer and primer/surfacer by the time we've finished. Fingers crossed.
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I hope my new Alpine floats better than my old one!

Good buy
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Good buy »

Original
Last edited by Good buy on Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tatra Man
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Tatra Man »

Aha! Three supports!!
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I hope my new Alpine floats better than my old one!

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Tatra Man
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Tatra Man »

Work has started!

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Not an easy (or dignified) position for someone just turned 64! :hilarious:
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I hope my new Alpine floats better than my old one!

Good buy
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Good buy »

Nice glove box ! :hmmm:

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Tatra Man
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Tatra Man »

Yeah. . . . . Bit of a mystery, that. Can anyone explain why there is an original panel running forward from each side of that cut-out but no mirror image structure on the port side? Each of those side panels even has a horizontal section which appears to be designed to hold some kind of base panel but the hole in the dash is a right mess. I realise that Alpines were evolving all the time and were virtually built to order so it's always possible that the buyer specified a "glove box" but, if so, why has it been hacked about so badly?

By the way, is there any particular reason why you've edited all the helpful information out of all your previous posts?
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I hope my new Alpine floats better than my old one!

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Tatra Man
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Tatra Man »

Tatra Man wrote:Is the sump drain pump used by Rootes a standard part used by other boat manufacturers and, again, can anyone suggest a source?
Howstar wrote:The sump pug has hole drilled then a 90 degres 15mm ish ELBOW brazed in and thread taped you can get them from any plumbers shop
Tatra Man wrote:Hmmmm. . . . . . . The Rootes parts list shows a curved pipe but the difficult part is the pump unless it's a standard part. I'm just hoping that Rootes bought them in but I can't be sure.
Here's a greatly reduced section of the Rootes engineering drawing showing the sump drain pump and pipework (the original drawing is full sized). Does anyone recognise this as a standard part?

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I hope my new Alpine floats better than my old one!

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Tatra Man
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Tatra Man »

Thanks to "rmb" I now have the correct oil drain pump:-

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:woo:
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I hope my new Alpine floats better than my old one!

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Tatra Man
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by Tatra Man »

Tatra Man wrote:Rootes list a pressure cap for the cooling system but I've been told that Albatross didn't pressurise their systems. Is this true and is it because the heat exchangers wouldn't stand it?
Well I have some answers - but not all.

Alpine 2010 has its original Alpine engine but it would appear to have been marinised by Albatross, not by Rootes Marine. The reason I say this is that the only component on it which matches any of the special Rootes Alpine Marine engine is the tappet cover and even that could have been easily converted by Albatross from a standard item. The water cooled sump is a much simpler design which appears to be a modified car sump and there is no oil drain facility at all. The engine has neither an automotive engine number nor a Rootes Marine engine number.

That boat comes with an Albatross header tank which is mounted on the top two carburettor to manifold mounting bolts and that manifold is not Rootes. Both those components are rather crudely fabricated and the manifold takes twin SU carbs - something which Rootes never used. The thermostat housing has been replaced by a simple outlet so there is no provision anywhere in the circuit for a thermostat and the header tank has the Albatross filler cap. The bypass circuit spigot on the water pump has been fitted with a bleed valve so there is no bypass circuit but, without a thermostat, there's no need for one.

All those components appear to be totally original and fit in with the history of the boat which is quite well documented.

2003 on the other hand has a genuine Rootes Alpine Marine combined header tank and heat exchanger with a pressure cap which has been remotely mounted from the engine and leads me to believe that the thermostat and bypass arrangement would be intact on the engine. It also has the Alpine Marine inlet manifold and original twin Zenith carbs.

So, it seems that Albatross made a few early Alpines with Rootes Alpine Marine engines and then cheapened up production by buying in non-marinised engines and converting them themselves. This change happened sometime between numbers 2003 and 2010 and the additional engine height with the Albatross header tank mounted on it would account for the change in profile and increase in height of the engine cover hump. It could be that 2010 was the first Alpine built this way and that might account for the crude nature of the inlet manifold and header tank.

An engine only gives of its best when it's reached operating temperature and I can't see that later cooling system allowing the engine to stabilise at a sensible working temperature. Combined with the crude inlet manifold which makes no concessions whatsoever to gas flow, I can't see that installation producing the 85bhp which the Alpine Marine engine produces and this may be the origin of the rumours that Albatross Alpines had Rapier engines. Indeed, the only difference between the Rapier and Alpine engines lies in the carburettor settings and the later Albatross Alpines appear not to have the twin Zenith carburettors anyway.

So, it seems that just a very few early Alpines have additional cooling in the form of the Rootes combined header tank and heat exchanger and what looks like a better engineered water cooled sump so I'm going to run an 82° thermostat and a 7lb pressure cap to start with.
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I hope my new Alpine floats better than my old one!

scooter
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Re: Albatross Alpine restoration

Post by scooter »

My boat (no 2014) is a two seater which has a different engine cooling configuration but I would caution against pressurising the system if you use the Albatross converted engine instead of the Rootes conversion. If you pressurise the Albatross system you will distort outwards the front water tank and it will foul the front water pump drive. I know this to be fact as Ray Wright and I tried converting my boat to thermostat and pressure system.

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